Moving Principles

Introduction:

A. We believe that moving is a good opportunity to learn about God, His reliability, brethren, the church, and myself.

B. Jerrie and I tried to keep notes, observe principles, learn from what was helpful that we did and what others did, and from mistakes that we and others made.

C. The ideas that we will share with you are ours and not necessarily the best way to proceed.

D. I will present these thoughts for your consideration.

I. PROVIDENCE.

A. God sets up and removes kings. Daniel 2:21

He changes times and periods of history. He removes kings and establishes them. He gives wisdom to those who are wise and knowledge to those who have insight.

B. Ministers who put the kingdom first will not starve to death. Matthew 6:33

The thing you should want most is God's kingdom and doing what God wants. Then all these other things you need will be given to you.

II. TRUTH. John 8:32

You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

A. Be honest.

1. To others.

2. To yourself. 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12

He will use every kind of evil to trick those who are lost. They will die, because they refused to love the truth. (If they loved the truth, they would be saved.) For this reason God sends them something powerful that leads them away from the truth so they will believe a lie. So all those will be judged guilty who did not believe the truth, but enjoyed doing evil.

a. Are you interested in truth?

b. What are you doing to find out the truth about this congregation and your fit?

c. Are the Elders interested in and pursuing truth?

(1) Have they checked your references?

(2) How will Elders learn the truth from the congregation?

(a) Survey form.

(b) Question time

1> Allow Honest questions and Give Honest answers

2> “I don’t know” is an honest answer

3. Do you know what you don't like about each other?

a. How will you work with your differences?

b. If you don't know what you don't like, you don't know enough about each other - you may want to believe a lie. 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12

C. Ask what you need to know. Matthew 7:7,8

"Ask, and you will receive. Search, and you will find. Knock, and the door will be opened for you. Everyone who asks will receive. The one who searches will find, and for the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

1. Doctrine.

2. Attitudes.

3. Way of operating.

4. Minister - Elders relationship.

5. Staff fit.

6. Rumors.

C. Tapes of previous worship services

1. You can learn about singing, prayers, etc.

D. Check answers. Ephesians 4:25

So then, get rid of lies. Speak the truth to each other, because we are all members of the same body.

1. Present Minister.

2. Minister for the last ten years. (questions to ask)

a. Can this conversation be confidential?

b. My situation and reason for asking is ______________

c. What is the growth history of this congregation?

d. What opportunities do you see for future growth?

e. What kind of Minister is needed for this congregation at this time?

f. What is the reputation in the community?

g. What is the reputation and relationship with area congregations?

h. What is expected of the Minister?

i. How does the leadership handle conflict?

j. What is the Elder- Minister relationship?

k. What is the staff relationship?

l. What is the greatest need?

m. What is the greatest weakness?

n. What is the greatest strength?

o. How has your family been received and treated?

3. Other Ministers in the area.

a. Tell about sister congregations.

b. Why do 90% of the people moving to __________ place membership where you minister instead of at ___________?

c. Other people who might know.

d. This is the process of building trust.

e. Trust is built by evidence. Hebrews 11:1

4. Talk to staff.

a. Other ministers.

b. Secretary.

c. Custodian.

d. Find out how the staff feels about you.

e. Find out how the staff feels about the last Minister.

III. FIT.

A. When I visit a congregation to "try out", I am not trying to get a job, I am trying to determine and help the Elders determine if we fit.

B. Can two walk together unless they agree? Amos 3:3

1. No.

2. Many good Ministers and many good congregations do not need to be working together - not because they are bad, sinful, Crossroads, Boston, Conservative, or liberal - but because they do not fit: they are not agreed on how they can best carry out the Lord's work.

3. This could be a reason to move without blame or labeling. Acts 15:36-41

After some time, Paul said to Barnabas, "We should go back to all those towns where we preached the message of the Lord. Let's visit the believers and see how they are doing." Barnabas wanted to take John Mark with them, but he had left them at Pamphylia; he did not continue with them in the work. So Paul did not think it was a good idea to take him. Paul and Barnabas had such a serious argument about this that they separated and went different ways. Barnabas took Mark and sailed to Cyprus, but Paul chose Silas and left. The believers in Antioch put Paul into the Lord's care, and he went through Syria and Cilicia, giving strength to the churches.

IV. LOOK FOR MORE THAN EXTERNALS.

Proverbs 25:24 Better to live on a corner of the roof than share a house with a quarrelsome wife.

1 Samuel 16:7 But the LORD said to Samuel, "Don't look at how handsome Eliab is or how tall he is, because I have not chosen him. God does not see the same way people see. People look at the outside of a person, but the LORD looks at the heart."

A. Building, salary, size of congregation.

B. "I wasn't sure I wanted the job at first—but I got more interested after I found out the average attendance each Sunday was 1,200 and that the youth group had well over a hundred kids and was moving fast toward the 200 barrier. That was my first church." …

…"High attendance isn't necessarily an indication of true spirituality—many are the youth programs with high attendance but minimal commitments to Christ. That's much worse than low numbers—whatever low means."

…Youthworker journal

C. What to look for.

1. You need to decide what works for you and your spouse.

2. Trista and I came up with some things that helped us.

3. We looked for two different things but came up with the same thoughts.

a. Trista looked at the colors of the building.

1) If the building was painted with cold colors then usually the people were also cold.

2) If the Building was stark white then the people were usually uptight about their building.

3) A Warm painted building usually meant a warm congregation.

b. I looked for cars in the parking lot. (The way I figured it)

1) If there were lots of Cadillac’s then it was an older congregation stuck in their ways.

2) If there were a lot of BMW’s, Audi’s, etc then it was a rich congregation who would pay for activities but not help with the activities.

3) If there were a lot of older cars there probably would be plenty of help and complaining.

4) We needed a good mix in the parking lot so that we could have a good mix in the church.

V. LEARN BY LISTENING.

A. Let them ask questions

B. They will ask about what is important to them

VI. GET FEEDBACK FROM THOSE WHO DIDN'T WANT YOU.

A. Ask what they liked and what they didn’t like

B. Just because they didn’t hire you does not mean you are not a good Minister

VII. BE SENSITIVE TO THE ISSUE OF MONEY. ("Money is an outside indication of what's going on, on the inside.")

A. When is it first introduced?

B. Who introduced it?

1. Was it mentioned on the telephone?

2. Is it the first thing you or the Elders want to discuss?

a. Why discuss it first?

b. Why negotiate for an hour over salary, expenses, insurance, social security, etc. if you aren't in agreement over other issues?

3. How do you feel discussing it?

4. How do the Elders feel discussing it?

5. Are business principles used in the discussion?

a. Difference between gross and net.

b. Moving.

c. Moving allowance. (5,000.00)

C. How were you compensated during the "try out" process?

1. How you are paid during the try out says something.

a. How your preaching is valued.

b. How you are valued by the Elders as a competent person.

c. The degree of order and planning in the congregation. (.20 per mile, expenses, $50.00 per presentation)

d. Probably how you would be treated financially as the Minister.

e. All communication should be checked to be sure that you are receiving the correct message.

2. If there is a difference in verbal and non-verbal communication, non-verbal is usually more accurate, more lasting, more sincere. James 2:15-20

Suppose a believer, whether a man or a woman, needs clothes or food and one of you tells that person, "God be with you! Stay warm, and make sure you eat enough." If you don't provide for that person's physical needs, what good does it do? In the same way, faith by itself is dead if it doesn't cause you to do any good things. Another person might say, "You have faith, but I do good things." Show me your faith apart from the good things you do. I will show you my faith by the good things I do. You believe that there is one God. That's fine! The demons also believe that, and they tremble with fear. You fool! Do you have to be shown that faith which does nothing is useless?

3. Is the Minister a competent person who will be compensated according to ability and experience, or is he and his family a part of the benevolence program?

VIII. BE SENSITIVE TO THE WAY YOUR FAMILY IS TREATED. Matthew 18:5.6

"Whoever accepts a child in my name accepts me. If one of these little children believes in me, and someone causes that child to sin, it would be better for that person to have a large stone tied around the neck and be drowned in the sea.

A. They are telling you how they value people.

B. Are they trying to "hire a Minister" or are they interested in serving people, thinking about others - their wants, their needs? Matthew 7:12

Always do for other people everything you want them to do for you.

IX. GET WRITTEN AGREEMENTS. Matthew 5:33-37

"You have heard that it was said to our people long ago, 'Don't break your promises, but keep the promises you make to the Lord.' But I tell you, never swear an oath. Don't swear an oath using the name of heaven, because heaven is God's throne. Don't swear an oath using the name of the earth, because the earth belongs to God. Don't swear an oath using the name of Jerusalem, because that is the city of the great King. Don't even swear by your own head, because you cannot make one hair on your head become white or black. Say only yes if you mean yes, and no if you mean no. If you say more than yes or no, it is from the Evil One.

A. Details.

1. Salary and benefit arrangements.

2. Vacation and days off.

3. Meeting and other speaking appointments

4. Job description.

5. Way we will work together.

6. When transition will be announced.

X. WORK HARD ON THE GRIEF PROCESS WITH YOU AND YOUR FAMILY AND HELP THE CONGREGATIONS WITH THEIRS.

A. Good Grief, by Granger Westburg.

B. Moving is a painful, lonely experience.

1. For the Minister and his family.

2. For the congregation.

C. Somebody gets fired every time a Minister moves.

1. Either the congregation fires the Minister.

2. Or the Minister fires the congregation.

D. My experience is that getting fired is painful.

1. I want to be sensitive to that issue.

2. If I am the one who is asked to leave, I can grow.

a. Why was I asked to leave?

b. If I can see nothing I could have done differently, that is very depressing.

(1) I am totally out of control.

(2) There is nothing I can learn to do differently with the next congregation.

c. Being asked to leave doesn't necessarily mean that I am a bad person or Minister.

3. I need to be very sensitive to the congregation if I decide to fire them, if I am the one who decides to move.

a. "I've seen far too many youth workers destroy in their last two weeks on a job what they spent years of effort and sacrifice creating" Dewey Bertolini, "Breaking Up Is Hard to Do," Youthworker journal.

- Jerrie W. Barber

- Jeremy Houck

Preacher Interview

Congregation: _______________________________________________

Name: Date:

1. What has been the growth history of this congregation?

2. What opportunities do you see for future growth?

3. What kind of Youth Minister is needed for this congregation at this time?

4. What is the reputation in the community?

5. What is the reputation and relationship with area congregations?

6. What is expected of the Youth Minister?

7. Who are the Elders?

Name Occupation Length of Service

8. How do the Elders function? (administrators, shepherds, bosses, deacons, workers, etc.)

9. How do the Elders handle conflict?

a. How do they deal with anger?

b. How do they keep commitments?

c. How do they apologize?

10. How do the Elders express tenderness, gratitude, and concern?

a. How do they honor each other?

b. How do they honor others?

11. What is the Elder-Youth Minister relationship?

a. Meetings?

b. Exchange and acceptance of ideas?

c. Outside "church"?

12. What kind of vision (sense of purpose) do the Elders have?

13. How do the Elders grow?

14. What is the role of the Elders?

15. What is the staff relationship?

a. How often do you have staff meetings?

b. What do you do in staff meetings?

16. What is a vital need of this congregation?

17. What are the strengths of this congregation?

18. What are the weaknesses of this congregation?

19. How has your family been received and treated?

a. What is expected and permitted in regard to your wife?

b. Children?

20. Matthew 7:12 - If I were in your place and you were in mine, what would you want me to tell you?

Staff Interview

Congregation:

Name: Date:

1. What has been the growth history of this congregation?

2. What opportunities do you see for future growth?

3. What kind of Youth Minister is needed for this congregation at this time?

4. What is the reputation in the community?

5. What is the reputation and relationship with area congregations?

6. What is expected of the Youth Minister?

7. What is the staff relationship?

a. How often do you have staff meetings?

b. What do you do in staff meetings?

8. What is a vital need of this congregation?

9. What are the strengths of this congregation?

10. What are the weaknesses of this congregation?

11. How has your family been received and treated?

a. What is expected and permitted in regard to your wife?

b. Children?

12. Matthew 7:12 - If I were in your place and you were in mine, what would you want me to tell you?

27 Questions

You Have Got to Know Before You Go

1) How would you describe your church?

Does the church describe itself by it’s past or by it’s vision. Do core values look inward or outward.

2) Why was the church started?

If a split that happened over 100 years ago started this congregation there still may be some baggage.

3) What is the church's Purpose?

Does it have a well-defined mission and strategy or do they go with the flow?

4) What is your unique role in this community?

What sets this church apart? Who is the target audience? What ministry do they offer that no one else offers?

5) How would a neighbor around this building portray this congregation?

This is tells you a lot about a churches outreach

6) What’s this churches theology?

Does the church commit that Jesus is the head?

7) How would you describe the atmosphere of : Worship; Small Groups; Business Meetings; Family Meetings; Special Events

Do they all agree on these?

8) What are three areas that you feel need to be changed in this church? What are three areas that you feel need to stay the same?

This will tell you the strengths and weaknesses of this congregation

9) How many strong ministries does this church have?

The more ministries the more involved the membership is.

10) What new ministries have been started in the last five years?

If none you may encounter a we’ve never done it that way before.”

11) If you knew you couldn’t fail what would your dreams be for this church?

If they do not dreams then neither will the congregation.

12) What are the statistics for worship over the past five years?

This gives you clues to tension and splits.

13) Do you have a plan for growth?

Are they willing to pay the price for growth?

14) What is the single biggest obstacle for Growth in this church?

If they all agree you know where to start if they disagree you need to work on aligning perceptions.

15) What role do you feel Ministers should play in the development of a strong, growing, congregation?

Vision will vary here but it makes them think.

16) When did your last new members join?

If the last family placed membership 3 years ago you need to look at stale ministries.

17) Is there any conflict in the church now?

Conflict should not surprise you but it will allow the committee to be honest.

18) What issues have regularly caused friction in this church?

Are these real issues or symptoms?

19) Why do you think I will help this church?

The answers will shed light on expectations.

20) What were the strengths and weaknesses of the past preacher?

Do they dwell on the negative or push the positive. Also gives more expectations.

21) How long have previous ministers worked with this congregation in the past?

This pattern will usually follow. If the old minister retired then are you the interim?

22) How does this church view its staff?

Are they professionals or are they hired help?

23) To who do I answer and who will answer to me?

This shows the Hierarchy. You should answer directly to the Elders.

24) Has the interim period been healing?

Interim’s are very helpful. Was it outside help or another minister on staff?

25) What is the role of the preacher?

Is he the office manager, mentor, or does he run the show?

26) Will I have the freedom to shape and form my own ministry team?

Or are you expected to work with the old team and there old ties and baggage?

27) What is expected of my family?

Is your wife expected at every event, does she have to lead a ministry, does your family have to answer to the Elders or are you allowed to be the head of the home?

Taken from Leadership Magazine

Summer 1998

Page 97-99